Second Chance Horse Rescue Discussion Boards

SecondChance

What method of horse handling/riding do you follow?

I am primarily a 'classical' rider. I learn and train classical dressage principles, jumping and cross country. I don't use harsh bits, or any sort of training aid at all such as chambons or pessoa's etc. For one I have never been taught to use them and for second I believe - whether this belief is founded or not I don't know yet - I don't like the idea of using these as I feel they are short cuts regardless of how correctly and how well they are used. I prefer to continue to improve my riding and handling techniques so that I never have to, so I can ride well enough to train my horse without a gimmick.

I also will never carry a whip. I find them cumbersome and unbalance my hands, they get in the way. If I need a little extra something I prefer to wear dummy spurs but that is really the extent of my extra aids!

I do however believe 'natural horsemanship' techniques are very, very relevant and beneficial. Horse handling, ground work and good training techniques are one of the most neglected parts of horsemanship. I use a variety of Parelli, Monty Roberts, Steve Brady, John Lyons, Dan James and Fred Watkins methods and tailor each to the horse I am working on - using what best suits that horse.

I do however feel single-method riders and trainers to be very frustrating. Many 'classical' riders are absolutely HOPELESS horse handlers, some are great. I worry that a lot of Parelli riders learn only the Parelli stuff and their positions are shocking and many are very unbalanced and unsteady in the saddle as they're not given a thorough background in developing a good seat. And a good secure seat, and good balance are paramount whatever method you prefer to use.

Some things about natural horsemanship I am confused about. For example I know Parelli-ites talk about doing things with a horse's permission... I really don't know if horse's minds work that way, I know when a horse says "No!" about something, it usually stems from fear, lack of understanding, dominance over their handler etc... but I am not sure about the term permission...

I also worry about horses that have only ever been handled/ridden in a certain method. If a rider who wants to do dressage tries to ride a horse started under Parelli horsemanship, both horse and rider are going to be really confused and all the training and whatnot has to be undone so the new person can do what they want to do. Just because a rider wishes to do dressage doesn't automatically make them evil unconsiderate riders and just because a person wants to ride Parelli doesn't make them an airy-fairy rope swinger! Horses are smart, isn't it beneficial to teach them both?

I have however seen some really amazing changes in horses using natural type methods and certainly respect them for the change they make in people too. It has done some miracles for sure.
_________________

Want a signature like this? Enter the July photo comp!

Sugar's Mum · Joined: 04 Jul 2009 Posts: 82 Location: Busselton

when I first started horse riding the only instructors in my area where the if the horse doesn't do what you ask hit it with a whip type. THis of course fizzed up the horses

When I first saw Monty Roberts working with horses I was amazed.
So now I use a mix of classical and Monty Roberts.

I personally dont use parelli as when I was first looking into the Parelli method I felt it was designed to simply put money in his pocket or the pocket of his instructors. e.g. you have to do all this stuff to get to level one before moving on to level two etc.

I know I am a better rider now then I was because I am listening more to the horse now rather then making the horse listen to me. Does that make sense? I still ask for the horse to do what I want it to do but use advance and retreat as a way to get the horse to understand what it is I want so I am finding the horses are a lot calmer and happier. They do get confused if I am asking them for something they have never done but when they get stroppy I ignore it and only praise the behavior I want.

Advance and retreat is basically putting pressure of some form on the horse ( say I want to teach it that tarps are not horse eating monsters) you continue the pressure when the horse is upset but the instant it settles you drop the pressure back.

So to teach the tarp is fine you get one person to hold the horse with one end of the tarp in their outer hand then I walk the other end of the tarp toward the back end of the horse. If the horse stands still I turn and walk back away. Then I just keep doing this each time taking one step closer. If the horse tried to spin away you just keep advancing forward until the horse stops still and then you turn and walk away. so advance and retreat. it works very very well and very very quickly.

I play around with a lot of things like tarps, whip cracking loud noises etc to try and desensitize the horses to sudden things that can spook them. It teaches them that I am not going to hurt them if I do it sensitively listening to the horse and judging its level of concern.

ozbatt · Second Chance Mod Joined: 27 Aug 2008 Posts: 713

Re the "getting permission" thing, it's not just riding that can bring out a "no" response. For example, if you go to the paddock & your horse heads off away from you, he's not giving you "permission" to catch him & do things with him. So the answer lies in improving your relationship with your horse to the point where he looks forward to doing things with you. Same with bridling/ saddling, if he turns his head away from the bridle or halter, backs off from the saddle etc he's giving you feedback about something that he's not happy about (it might not even be a physical thing, perhaps it's your attitude, or he just doesn't feel like doing something that day) & you need to figure out what it is. Again you haven't got "permission" to just go ahead & do what you want. Your horse can't tell you in audible words what he wants, he uses body language, so it's your job to read that body language & work out how to get him to WANT to do what you want to do & ENJOY doing it with you. Sometimes horses just appreciate undemanding time spent with them, instead of being expected to go & DO something every time you get with them. However of course there are times when you do just have to say Well sorry but today we have to do this because... But if you also spend time asking (& getting) your horse's permission to do stuff he will be much more amenable to doing things with you even if he doesn't particularly feel like doing it.

SecondChance · Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:34 pm Post subject:

Thanks Ozbatt I think I am beginning to understand that concept a bit better now. Not 100% fully get it just yet but understand better.

Yes Sugar's Mum my initial learning was pretty much the same as you.

I like to mirror ride. Basically I work on the basis that with your riding and handling, the horse will mirror you (or whoever works with it). If you're aggressive or timid or lazy or afraid or unbalanced they mirror that. Sometimes they mirror it the exact same as you, sometimes they show the opposit depending on their personality but I always believe no matter what is wrong with your horse, the stem of the problem comes from you somehow.

EG horse is misbehaving because its back is sore. What did you do, neglect to do or put the horse in the position to do that caused the soreness? I mean like saddle fit and things like that. I know you can't control everything and sometimes the horse will muck about in the paddock and pull something out of line. But if they do, it is then your responsibility to realise this and get it fixed!

If the horse won't jump, or won't shoulder in or won't walk out on the trail what are YOU doing wrong? I really do like the saying "If you horse says no you either asked the wrong question or you asked the question wrong" which I believe is a Parelli saying and one I totally agree with!
_________________

Want a signature like this? Enter the July photo comp!

Obelia1 · Joined: 22 Aug 2008 Posts: 151 Location: Wanneroo, WA

I follow the Parelli methods and have found them so beneficial in increasing my confidence with handling strong horses on the ground as well as riding.
Parelli works in four savvys, these include online, freestyle, liberty and finnesse. This makes the program well rounded, so its not really all about handling horses on the ground.
As for developing a balanced seat, parelli teaches you how to find your balance point enabling you to move in time with the horse. In fact developing a balanced seat is probably one of the primary focuses in the freestyle savvy.
The fact Parelli teaches you how to play with your horse in all areas of horsemanship makes it a progressive program which has taken me from being a novice/ beginner to a confident rider in the space of a year.
_________________
"A horse doesn't care how much you know until he knows how much you care."
Pat Parelli

ozbatt · Second Chance Mod Joined: 27 Aug 2008 Posts: 713

If you really want to feel what it's like to be your horse, try this (we do a lot of simulations on our Parelli courses & this is one that we did at the last camp). Get a friend to be your horse by putting a bridle over her head (not being sexist gentlemen, but the ladies are in the majority here!) & hold the bit in her hands. Then stand behind her holding the reins & tap her on the back to get her to move off. Then "ride " her by steering left & right, stop, walk on etc, & get feedback from her on how it felt. Were you polite in your asking, or rough & hard? Were your communications easy to understand or did she find it confusing? Would she have preferred you to give her a bit more time to try to work out exactly what you wanted? And also try being quicker/stronger/more forceful with something as simple as just picking up the reins, & ask your "horse" what it feels like compared to being considerate, & slower. You might be surprised by the result!
(I don't know if they do this kind of stuff at PC but if not I think they should).
With mirroring, you can also do that on the ground (we call it "me & my shadow") - take your horse for a walk but don't make him do anything, just imitate everything he does even to breathing at the same rate, looking at what he does, walking as slow/fast as he does etc. I found that I'm always ahead of my horse, ready to walk off before he's even thought of taking a step so that probably happens in my body when I ride too.... It's a really good way of becoming aware of just what your body does that's not in sync with your horse.

SecondChance · Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:14 pm Post subject:

What awesome exercises to try! Thanks Ozbatt Im going to have a go with them and do them with my PC kids.
_________________

Want a signature like this? Enter the July photo comp!